I honestly wonder how men learn these skills. It’s like these abusers all use the same playbook isn’t it. Same as cult leaders. It’s just bizarre that they choose to live this way. Im so glad you survived this and got out!
I wonder how much it’s a choice. Damage is done to them very early, and they end up missing something very important, developmentally. The capacity to love and feel in a functional way. I had a long conversation once with a psychiatric nurse about the conditions that create this personality disorder. It *does* feel like they’re working from some kind of playbook; the similarities are so extraordinary. But it’s presumably about the way your brain works when key empathetic circuits have failed to connected, and insecurities are being protected through control. And thanks - I’m very glad too! Getting out was the hardest and most valuable thing I’ve done in my life.
Agree with you that for many, it's the result of severe trauma indicted option then when they were very young. That didn't excuse their behavior, however - they're grown adults now who are capable of getting professional help if they're motivated to do so. And it's definitely better to leave them as soon as you can.
I recommend highly reading Lundy Bancroft's books on verbal & emotional abuse : "Why does he do that?" Is one of them.
Another excellent author to help understand this behavior is Patricia Evans, who wrote "verbal abuse" and "controlling people". Both books were essential in opening my eyes to my own situation. My mother had narcissistic tendencies and so I had no understanding that her way of loving her children was harmful and pathological.
Reading sentences in the book cited as examples of abuse that were *exactly* what my husband would say to me really brought home to me that I was being subjected to domestic violence. It changed my life for the better.
These are great recommendations, Lorraine, thank you. I think I should read these as I go forward with my memoir. Another good if scary read is “In Control” by Jane Monckton-Smith. I have a friend right now who is in real physical danger after leaving her abuser, and I read this last year to try and help her with tactic etc, especially as she goes through the courts.
It's so tough! Lundy Bancroft also has a non profit to support women like your friend and try to improve the dreadful family court system. Praying that you friend finds a safe harbor so she can rebuild her life 🙏.
It was my therapist who finally told me to read Patricia Evans "Verbal Abuse" after I spent months talking to her about my relationships. I was astonished when I read it.
Do you think it is put on them after birth or is congenital? Or does it enter and take over during puberty when they gain the ability to be evil and their mind becomes abstract?
Because I have known ones who were raised WONDERFULLY by very loving families.
Oh my God, Ros. I am absolutely gobsmacked by the similarities between your story and parts of my own. I was trapped in a marriage to an abuser who was very very similar to the one you were. From the "accidental" pregnancy when I was a tried and true non birther, followed by his religiously affiliated belief against abortion, then extreme jealousy against his own children, particularly our son who I had a very tight relationship with. It was the part where you detailed the conversation between you and him about who you would save that actually legit had my jaw on the floor. I had almost to the exact word the same conversation with him at one point and he was upset with me for my answer and I was horrified by his answer and his justification was-i kid you not-almost EXACTLY the same as your husband's. I am not even joking right now. Reading this was like you were recalling my own memories to me. Also, autoimmune disorders: I have been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, and lupus. I credit the damage done by my narcissist abuser ex with so so much of it. So, all that being said, from one survivor of that shit to another, congrats for being here on the other side.
It's astonishing how similarly these people operate. I've certainly heard that the "accidental" pregnancy is extremely common, which is how the term "baby-trapping" came into existence. But having that almost identical conversation, with the same justification? Wow. Questions have been raised about a 'playbook'; there may well be one now, but pre-internet, how is the similarity explained? Nowadays the word 'narcissism' is thrown around a lot, and there is surely a very specific kind of insecurity, combined with an inability to see women and children as human, that leads to treating the people in your life as both trophies and as potentially disposable. It's a puzzle that would be good to solve. I have my own theories about how people become like this... because all babies are born innocent and full of love. I shall expound on it in a future essay. Congrats yourself on being here on the other side. We both know it's not easy to get here.
Heck no it isn't. Not only that but I'm beginning to thrive again instead of just survive. And narcissism does get thrown around a whole lot these days, for sure. In my case he was court ordered to get a psych profile done and he was officially diagnosed as such, although in a cruel irony I was actually unaware of what narcissism entailed at the time so I didn't even know how serious or dangerous it could be. I learned that later on. He literally attempted to destroy myself and my children on his way out the door after he had just demolished our lives with his behaviors. ETA: another similarity that just blew my mind was the fact that my ex preyed upon the ignorance and the trust of my relatives and secretly undermined me to God only knows how many of my family members. He made himself look like he was the hard working long suffering spouse of a troubled woman who just couldn't get her shit together. And they believed him because I had never been open and honest with them about how shitty he was to me. I was too ashamed of it.
Wow. You had a good court process. I wish my own legal people had been so awake. I’m sorry you had to put up with so much, but I’m glad you survived it. Poisoning your family members against you is part of the abuser playbook. If the family members get on board with the abusers pov, you have zero support (which is what they want; if they don’t, the abuser will do everything they can to isolate you from them in other ways (so that you still have zero support). This is why these relationships, if you can survive them, forge some of the strongest human beings on the planet. They are an annealing-then-tempering fire.
The court ordered psych profile was because he had literally just lost his mind when I found out he was cheating and he abused me physically and when I called the police to report it, they turned us both into CPS. Him for abusing me and me for allowing my child to witness domestic violence. I wish I was kidding about that part, but they do that. I wrote about it in my story "captaining my soul" if you want to read about it. https://bluepnwcats.substack.com/p/captaining-my-soul?r=gc3ns
“Allowing” your child to witness domestic violence? That is insane. I’m sorry you had to fight the system as well as your abuser! Thank you for the link. You have a great sassy style even when writing the dark things.
Thanks Ros! And yeah, that was a terrible thing, to feel like the system was against me as well. I had a lawyer who was helping me fill out paperwork tell me that Texas CPS were what she called “mother punishers” and that my story wasn't at all uncommon. Thank you for reading. 😊
Patricia Evans had a great theory on her book "Controlling People" about how they get that way... Major emotional trauma when they're young prevents then from being able to establish a positive connection; they're only able to create a negative connection by originating, annoying, antagonizing, etc... because that's their experience of connection, only with negative emotions. They're partner becomes the "supply" of positive enjoying that they're not able to generate.
That reminds that there's another great website with tons of resources and info called "flying monkeys denied". https://flyingmonkeysdenied.com/
I wonder does this only becomes a thing for boy children because I was severely abused and I know abuse for me started in my mother's womb.
Why then didn't I become an abuser? My brother has been the golden child, guess what, he abuses.
Statistically, narcissism is more common in men, and this theory of something so bad happening to them as children is starting to make no sense to me because think about it, many children of past generations went through abuse no matter what gender!
You make a good point, Caroline. I think mine was ASP, and very much connected to an absence of love at a critical age, but also yes - though you get ASP women they are less likely to dominate, control, use violence etc. Not all abused people become abusers and not all male violence and domination is explained by an abused or neglected background. The patriarchal society in which we live is the most important factor, since it gives them the idea that they are superior to women and have every right to “own” one to serve their needs.
40 years later, reading Ros tell my story I still call myself 'a difficult woman; neurotic; ridiculous'. If Ros' story is also your story, believe in yourself.
Yes, Cherry. Believe in yourself. Stop calling yourself names. You’ve internalised an abuser’s words, and it’s time to exorcise them. You really went through what you went through. It’s time to be kind to yourself.
Thank you ... I have grown a mindset around 'it wasn't that bad' ... and it really was. Interesting that you note autoimmune dysfunction - my 'neurotic' hypothyroidism, vitiligo and palindromic rheumatoid arthritis all began in 1987 ... I left in 1992 but after his death - eight years ago, it is as if, vampire like, he has bitten my daughter and infects my dreams - even now. I look ok. I sound ok. I am ok - and that bullying, gas-lighting is definitely not ok!
I dated someone similar. What people on the outside don’t see is that it starts every slowly and you feel a little like something is wrong but you can’t really put your finger on it because it’s all presenting normally. Then it gets worse over time. The boyfriend typically presents as nice and friendly or as someone who you’re being “mean” to when you stick your for yourself.
I’m so sorry you went through that. I hope other young women read this so they’re able to see warning signs. Thirty years ago we didn’t know these things.
I hope so too. There is more and more information out there, thankfully, and I see young women talking about ‘red flags’ on social media all the time. But the signs are so, so subtle. Sometimes those ‘red flags’ feel like little scraps of pink bunting, couldn’t hurt, right? Like you say, it starts subtle, and slow, and that’s how people get caught. I’m going to write more about how it starts off in the dating game. I’m glad you got no further than dating.
I can’t bring myself to read this story yet, because of my own romantic history, but it just writes home for me more why we NEED a guaranteed liveable income in our societies! I think it would transform societies and relationships for the better! Especially for women who are often primary caregivers and caretakers! If abused women knew they could afford to leave with their children, it would make all the difference in the world!!! The more women can not tolerate this kind of behaviour in men, the happier and healthier we will ALL be!!! 🙏🌈❤️😊♥️😌
Reading your article, I found words to describe my own experiences. Although I’ve been happily divorced 10 years now, there was still a lingering doubt whether I was wrong to have wanted a better life. Now I know that I wasn’t. I’d realised a while back that ‘narcissist’ perfectly described my ex but even then, I didn’t understand the extent to which it had damaged me. I went through the exact experiences… very charming, life of the party, had my parents and siblings eating out of his hand. Very few could see through that charade but I’m eternally grateful to the few who did and that includes my children. I owe my sanity and peace of mind to my kids and the few friends who stood by me.
You’re so right, this needs to be talked about much more. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you, Vinita. That’s wonderful to hear. That makes the sharing worthwhile, to make a difference like that, to help you find the words, and realise you were not wrong to want a better life. We all deserve a better life than a life of abuse, denigration, cruelty; we deserve to feel valued and appreciated and supported. It is the bare minimum we should expect out of a relationship. I’m glad you had people who stood by you, and that you got out of it.
Been there. Done that. I’m sorry and embarrassed to say twice. The first time I chalked the behavior up to my husband’s childhood trauma. The second time loneliness distracted me from the red flags as I soaked up the flattery and romantic attention.
Before I knew it we were married. The abuse literally started as we were walking out of the chapel. Criticizing my appearance, denigrating my two young-adult children. I kept thinking this was adjustment and would pass. It didn’t. I was working, earning and very soon supporting him. Sold my house and used the proceeds to renovate his. Same MO. Great guy around friends and family, telling me everything that was wrong with me as soon as they were away. Ultimately speaking in threatening terms. Anything that went wrong was my fault. I learned the meaning of gaslighting. But, I couldn’t face blowing my life up again, so endured for seven years. When I finally became too ill and exhausted to go on, he fought the divorce tooth and nail. In the end, to save my sanity, I walked away from everything I had put in, including the house. The battle so distracted me that I lost my job, ending up unemployed and nearly homeless.
It’s been four years and in weak moments I still find myself questioning whether it was my fault after all. But soon after I left I came across the 2020 book, Assume Nothing, by Tanya Selvaratnam, recounting her abusive relationship with Eric Schneiderman, a formerly rising US politician. It was one of the first written accounts I’d seen of the MO and its effects.
Thank you for having the courage to put your story out and for opening a conversation.
Hi Jessica, oh wow. So sorry to hear that. The abuse starting as you were walking out of the chapel; absolutely brazen! These relationships are so ridiculously destructive to the women who find themselves in them. I’m glad you got out and are rebuilding your life. It’s probably safe to say you won’t be repeating it a third time. And maybe even find a decent human being who deserves you.
Thanks Ros. Nope! No third time. Two wonderful kids, great friends, and a sweet dog and cat. Life is good! I don’t usually get into sharing about these past events, but having been there and experienced how crazy and alone it can feel, it seems important to put it out in case some other poor victim is trying to find footing.
Thank you for creating the opening. I hope it helps others.
You tell my story too - even to the move to the country bit. In my case to a half-built house with no running water, no electricity or plumbing and with an 18month old. I had to chop wood to light the slow burner stove for hot water.
He worked in the city so he took the car, stayed at his folks or with whoever he was shagging at the time.
Luckily the day my daughter found the rat bait and ate it he was home with the car. But it was me who drove her the 45 minutes to the hospital, and then 45 minutes back with her vomiting the whole way.
Took me two years to remember who I was after I eventually split with him (by then I had 4 kids - they were 6, 8, 10 and 12 at the time).
My Mum brought me the “Men are from Mars” book and empathised with him. 🤷🏼♀️. So much water under the bridge since then - 38 years worth.
Wow, Sarah. What a story. I’m glad your daughter survived the rat bait. And that you got out … and eventually returned to yourself. Putting you in 19th century conditions with an 18 month old. Nice. But here we are, ourselves, and a great deal wiser. Astonishing what we put ourselves through in the hope we would be loved.
This was just terrifying to read. I have tended to end relationships very quickly because I can spot men like this immediately - not because I'm particularly astute, but because I was under coercive control (parents) for the first few decades of my life, and my CC 'radar' is always on and at full alert. And that's the problem, understanding coercive control is an ordeal by fire that can only be understood when you have the space and energy to take a look back and connect the dots and see the pattern. We need to teach young girls about CC early on, and in great detail. Thanks so much for sharing, Ros, and laying it out so clearly, even though it must have been difficult to relive it all. x
Thank you, Jem. Yes, wouldn’t it be good if CC was taught in schools, so that it was part of every young girls’ understanding of how they should *not* be treated, and what to look out for. I’m sorry to hear you got your CC radar switched on by your parents, but it has no doubt saved you from a lot of extra pain.
This story chilled me to the bone. Unfortunately, there are endless varieties of abuse, but some strains are never discussed. Thanks for sharing. Kudos to you for having the strength to GET OUT.
Very moving! I think guys like this are responsible for some of the drop in the birth rate — everybody knows a woman who has been treated badly like this and I think it makes having babies less appealing.
Yes, I think that too. Young women are getting more savvy to this behaviour (there is much discussion of Red Flags) and any men following the Andrew Tate school of behaviour, being encouraged to treat women as subservient creatures there to service their desires are asking to end up incels. This needs to reverse, but I guess it needs to get louder first, so that everyone gets the message.
Really powerful piece, Ros. So sorry to hear about all you went through.
I work with a lot of domestic violence perpetrators (I used to facilitate the Building Better Relationships course) and loads of the men come across as very charming and jokey etc.,- so clever in manipulating situations to get people to think they’re the ones who’ve been wronged. It’s quite scary tbh. It is, at least, a positive that coercive control is getting more recognition these days and the police take DV call-outs a lot more seriously. Hopefully encourages more people to speak up.
Thank you, Andy. Yes, I’m so relieved it’s getting talked about more. We can’t tackle this issue as a society unless we are more aware of it and clued up about it.
Very powerful piece. It must be so painful to relive what happened. Yet only by writing and retelling it can you hope to educate others. There is no better purpose than that.
Thank you Alex. It's actually not so painful, because I have done a lot of healing work, and I'm really at peace with most of it. Though when I'm writing it down (for the first time), things pop up and surprise me, like thinking how it wrong it was let he made me drive to deliver the system myself when I was extremely pregnant and exhausted! But yes, I think it's important to share these things in the hope it might help others avoid the same pain.
Reading stories like this helps so much. The little things that resonate and you can recognize in your own story, because it's all sooo slippery. I still to this day find myself confused about whether my ex was abusive. Because he was never mean, or nasty, or loud. He was just.. indifferent. Indifferent to the point of leaving me home alone in our cabin in the middle of nowhere with a 12 hour old baby while he went out and got drunk. Didn't come home. Didn't answer his phone. That's weird right? Dad's who love their child's mothers don't do that. Dads who are in love with their babies don't do that. I have to tell myself that, to counter act the rationalizing that i spent so many years doing.He never once touched my stomach when I was pregnant. We lived in a village of 60 people. I never saw anyone, I didn't have any friends. He was my only friend. But then he left me for another gal. Moved me into a truck camper in the yard and moved her into the house. Told me he loved me and we would still be friends and everything would be ok. See? He was so nice. And what other choice did I have. He was my only confidante. I trusted him completely. And I had a three year old. Then he said he wanted me off the property. But lovingly. While saying he missed me. And I loved him. And I was out of my mind at this point. I weighed 25 lbs less than my healthy weight. I was vomiting every day, couldn't keep food down. I thought it was food poisoning. I was obsessed with tiny things. I cried all the time. But it would all be ok because he had my best interests at heart. Then I left the community and started my life over. Got healthy. Found new love. And all of a sudden my ex files for full custody. Says that I abused him. Says that I shouldn't be allowed to see my daughter without supervision. When I type it all out like this.... it's so clear right?
Wow, Bee. That’s SO clear. That is one of the cruellest and cleverest tales of abuse that I’ve seen. The cruelty is off the scale, actually. To *nicely* destroy you by telling you how much he loved you while every action showed the opposite. It’s amazing you managed to recover your sanity and health with that level of gaslighting. I mean people talk about gaslighting, and I certainly had a lot of it, but normal doses. That is one of the most extreme levels of gaslighting I have ever heard about. I hope you will write about it. That would make the most astonishing memoir or (if you preferred some fictional distance), novel. My word, you are a WARRIOR to be here.
Omg, yes. Shivers reading this. 4 months post-divorce. The red flags were there but I couldn’t see them until I filed for divorce. Then things began to make sense. How long does it take before you forgive yourself? I’m sitting in my new house I’ve bought for me and my three teenagers. I feel safe now no longer trapped in a role I knew I wasn’t suited for. Every time I read something like this, I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach. 3 and a half years later it still feels so raw, so many years wasted. But like you said, my god, the lessons I’ve learned….
You've done so well to a) get out b) make a safe home for you and your three teenagers. Brilliant work, Emily, honestly. You are not alone. Those years feel wasted now, but in time you'll understand how important they were in helping you learn your own value, grow as a person, become a powerful role-model for your children. It can take a while to forgive yourself, but there are ways of speeding it up. Hang around, I'll be sharing some. If you subscribe, check the chat, I'm going to be sharing the most important route through (the thing that really worked for me) next weekend. In the meantime, just bloody well done. You're out. You're okay. And it's going to keep getting better.
Thank you for sharing this Ros. It takes immense courage to talk about abuse. I am sorry that you lived through all of this. I have worked with a domestic abuse charity for sometime and have learnt a lot about perpetrators, coercive control, impacts on mental health and sadly the scale of the problem (1 in 3 women experience DA).
We really need to raise awareness of the signs and you are doing that so eloquently. Thank you.
That is a shocking statistic, Margaret. Can you point me to the source? I’d be really interested to see any study on that, because I had no idea it was as high as 1 in 3. Blimey, no wonder this post is taking off! For a long time I didn’t talk about it publicly, only among close friends. For 25 year in fact I stayed silent. Partly, because I didn’t want to poke the bear (he is still alive). Partly, because I didn’t want to upset my children by badmouthing their father (though they are all grown now and 2 out of 3 have cut off from him for their own reasons). But for a long time, because I still felt like no one would believe me… after all, no one did then, when it was happening.
Yes you have highlighted why so many women are silenced. There is the fear of speaking out should perpetrator seek revenge/ sue for defamation. Conviction rates are appealing so most perpetrators walk free.
Then there is family and children to consider.
Also culture, some cultures don’t recognise it as abuse.
All leading to a perfect storm.
Estimates published by WHO indicate that globally about 1 in 3 (30%) of women worldwide have been subjected to either physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence or non-partner sexual violence in their lifetime.
Domestic abuse is very common and types of abuse include coercive control, economic abuse as well as violent and sexual abuse.
The rise of Tate and misogyny doesn’t bode well sadly.
I honestly wonder how men learn these skills. It’s like these abusers all use the same playbook isn’t it. Same as cult leaders. It’s just bizarre that they choose to live this way. Im so glad you survived this and got out!
I wonder how much it’s a choice. Damage is done to them very early, and they end up missing something very important, developmentally. The capacity to love and feel in a functional way. I had a long conversation once with a psychiatric nurse about the conditions that create this personality disorder. It *does* feel like they’re working from some kind of playbook; the similarities are so extraordinary. But it’s presumably about the way your brain works when key empathetic circuits have failed to connected, and insecurities are being protected through control. And thanks - I’m very glad too! Getting out was the hardest and most valuable thing I’ve done in my life.
Agree with you that for many, it's the result of severe trauma indicted option then when they were very young. That didn't excuse their behavior, however - they're grown adults now who are capable of getting professional help if they're motivated to do so. And it's definitely better to leave them as soon as you can.
I recommend highly reading Lundy Bancroft's books on verbal & emotional abuse : "Why does he do that?" Is one of them.
Another excellent author to help understand this behavior is Patricia Evans, who wrote "verbal abuse" and "controlling people". Both books were essential in opening my eyes to my own situation. My mother had narcissistic tendencies and so I had no understanding that her way of loving her children was harmful and pathological.
Reading sentences in the book cited as examples of abuse that were *exactly* what my husband would say to me really brought home to me that I was being subjected to domestic violence. It changed my life for the better.
These are great recommendations, Lorraine, thank you. I think I should read these as I go forward with my memoir. Another good if scary read is “In Control” by Jane Monckton-Smith. I have a friend right now who is in real physical danger after leaving her abuser, and I read this last year to try and help her with tactic etc, especially as she goes through the courts.
It's so tough! Lundy Bancroft also has a non profit to support women like your friend and try to improve the dreadful family court system. Praying that you friend finds a safe harbor so she can rebuild her life 🙏.
It was my therapist who finally told me to read Patricia Evans "Verbal Abuse" after I spent months talking to her about my relationships. I was astonished when I read it.
Indeed! There is also a whole cultural context that enables them to keep doing it without ever being called out.
Do you think it is put on them after birth or is congenital? Or does it enter and take over during puberty when they gain the ability to be evil and their mind becomes abstract?
Because I have known ones who were raised WONDERFULLY by very loving families.
I think some temperaments are more susceptible than others, but ultimately it’s environmental.
Words I have used, “Do they all use the same playbook?”
I think it's mental disorder that just plays out similarly in anyone wanting to use control and it comes very naturally to them, man or woman.
I have a family member, who although not married to them, will try to control ANYONE in a similar manner. And I know it wasn't taught.
So, it has to be organically with them from early on.
Oh my God, Ros. I am absolutely gobsmacked by the similarities between your story and parts of my own. I was trapped in a marriage to an abuser who was very very similar to the one you were. From the "accidental" pregnancy when I was a tried and true non birther, followed by his religiously affiliated belief against abortion, then extreme jealousy against his own children, particularly our son who I had a very tight relationship with. It was the part where you detailed the conversation between you and him about who you would save that actually legit had my jaw on the floor. I had almost to the exact word the same conversation with him at one point and he was upset with me for my answer and I was horrified by his answer and his justification was-i kid you not-almost EXACTLY the same as your husband's. I am not even joking right now. Reading this was like you were recalling my own memories to me. Also, autoimmune disorders: I have been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, and lupus. I credit the damage done by my narcissist abuser ex with so so much of it. So, all that being said, from one survivor of that shit to another, congrats for being here on the other side.
It's astonishing how similarly these people operate. I've certainly heard that the "accidental" pregnancy is extremely common, which is how the term "baby-trapping" came into existence. But having that almost identical conversation, with the same justification? Wow. Questions have been raised about a 'playbook'; there may well be one now, but pre-internet, how is the similarity explained? Nowadays the word 'narcissism' is thrown around a lot, and there is surely a very specific kind of insecurity, combined with an inability to see women and children as human, that leads to treating the people in your life as both trophies and as potentially disposable. It's a puzzle that would be good to solve. I have my own theories about how people become like this... because all babies are born innocent and full of love. I shall expound on it in a future essay. Congrats yourself on being here on the other side. We both know it's not easy to get here.
Heck no it isn't. Not only that but I'm beginning to thrive again instead of just survive. And narcissism does get thrown around a whole lot these days, for sure. In my case he was court ordered to get a psych profile done and he was officially diagnosed as such, although in a cruel irony I was actually unaware of what narcissism entailed at the time so I didn't even know how serious or dangerous it could be. I learned that later on. He literally attempted to destroy myself and my children on his way out the door after he had just demolished our lives with his behaviors. ETA: another similarity that just blew my mind was the fact that my ex preyed upon the ignorance and the trust of my relatives and secretly undermined me to God only knows how many of my family members. He made himself look like he was the hard working long suffering spouse of a troubled woman who just couldn't get her shit together. And they believed him because I had never been open and honest with them about how shitty he was to me. I was too ashamed of it.
Wow. You had a good court process. I wish my own legal people had been so awake. I’m sorry you had to put up with so much, but I’m glad you survived it. Poisoning your family members against you is part of the abuser playbook. If the family members get on board with the abusers pov, you have zero support (which is what they want; if they don’t, the abuser will do everything they can to isolate you from them in other ways (so that you still have zero support). This is why these relationships, if you can survive them, forge some of the strongest human beings on the planet. They are an annealing-then-tempering fire.
The court ordered psych profile was because he had literally just lost his mind when I found out he was cheating and he abused me physically and when I called the police to report it, they turned us both into CPS. Him for abusing me and me for allowing my child to witness domestic violence. I wish I was kidding about that part, but they do that. I wrote about it in my story "captaining my soul" if you want to read about it. https://bluepnwcats.substack.com/p/captaining-my-soul?r=gc3ns
“Allowing” your child to witness domestic violence? That is insane. I’m sorry you had to fight the system as well as your abuser! Thank you for the link. You have a great sassy style even when writing the dark things.
Thanks Ros! And yeah, that was a terrible thing, to feel like the system was against me as well. I had a lawyer who was helping me fill out paperwork tell me that Texas CPS were what she called “mother punishers” and that my story wasn't at all uncommon. Thank you for reading. 😊
Patricia Evans had a great theory on her book "Controlling People" about how they get that way... Major emotional trauma when they're young prevents then from being able to establish a positive connection; they're only able to create a negative connection by originating, annoying, antagonizing, etc... because that's their experience of connection, only with negative emotions. They're partner becomes the "supply" of positive enjoying that they're not able to generate.
That reminds that there's another great website with tons of resources and info called "flying monkeys denied". https://flyingmonkeysdenied.com/
I wonder does this only becomes a thing for boy children because I was severely abused and I know abuse for me started in my mother's womb.
Why then didn't I become an abuser? My brother has been the golden child, guess what, he abuses.
Statistically, narcissism is more common in men, and this theory of something so bad happening to them as children is starting to make no sense to me because think about it, many children of past generations went through abuse no matter what gender!
You make a good point, Caroline. I think mine was ASP, and very much connected to an absence of love at a critical age, but also yes - though you get ASP women they are less likely to dominate, control, use violence etc. Not all abused people become abusers and not all male violence and domination is explained by an abused or neglected background. The patriarchal society in which we live is the most important factor, since it gives them the idea that they are superior to women and have every right to “own” one to serve their needs.
My goodness. When I read this article, I opened what I thought was a closet. Turns out I walked into Abusive Narnia.
Yes it's disturbing how prevalent it is.
40 years later, reading Ros tell my story I still call myself 'a difficult woman; neurotic; ridiculous'. If Ros' story is also your story, believe in yourself.
Yes, Cherry. Believe in yourself. Stop calling yourself names. You’ve internalised an abuser’s words, and it’s time to exorcise them. You really went through what you went through. It’s time to be kind to yourself.
Thank you ... I have grown a mindset around 'it wasn't that bad' ... and it really was. Interesting that you note autoimmune dysfunction - my 'neurotic' hypothyroidism, vitiligo and palindromic rheumatoid arthritis all began in 1987 ... I left in 1992 but after his death - eight years ago, it is as if, vampire like, he has bitten my daughter and infects my dreams - even now. I look ok. I sound ok. I am ok - and that bullying, gas-lighting is definitely not ok!
Thank you Ros for your validating memoir.
I dated someone similar. What people on the outside don’t see is that it starts every slowly and you feel a little like something is wrong but you can’t really put your finger on it because it’s all presenting normally. Then it gets worse over time. The boyfriend typically presents as nice and friendly or as someone who you’re being “mean” to when you stick your for yourself.
I’m so sorry you went through that. I hope other young women read this so they’re able to see warning signs. Thirty years ago we didn’t know these things.
I hope so too. There is more and more information out there, thankfully, and I see young women talking about ‘red flags’ on social media all the time. But the signs are so, so subtle. Sometimes those ‘red flags’ feel like little scraps of pink bunting, couldn’t hurt, right? Like you say, it starts subtle, and slow, and that’s how people get caught. I’m going to write more about how it starts off in the dating game. I’m glad you got no further than dating.
*very slowly
I can’t bring myself to read this story yet, because of my own romantic history, but it just writes home for me more why we NEED a guaranteed liveable income in our societies! I think it would transform societies and relationships for the better! Especially for women who are often primary caregivers and caretakers! If abused women knew they could afford to leave with their children, it would make all the difference in the world!!! The more women can not tolerate this kind of behaviour in men, the happier and healthier we will ALL be!!! 🙏🌈❤️😊♥️😌
Reading your article, I found words to describe my own experiences. Although I’ve been happily divorced 10 years now, there was still a lingering doubt whether I was wrong to have wanted a better life. Now I know that I wasn’t. I’d realised a while back that ‘narcissist’ perfectly described my ex but even then, I didn’t understand the extent to which it had damaged me. I went through the exact experiences… very charming, life of the party, had my parents and siblings eating out of his hand. Very few could see through that charade but I’m eternally grateful to the few who did and that includes my children. I owe my sanity and peace of mind to my kids and the few friends who stood by me.
You’re so right, this needs to be talked about much more. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you, Vinita. That’s wonderful to hear. That makes the sharing worthwhile, to make a difference like that, to help you find the words, and realise you were not wrong to want a better life. We all deserve a better life than a life of abuse, denigration, cruelty; we deserve to feel valued and appreciated and supported. It is the bare minimum we should expect out of a relationship. I’m glad you had people who stood by you, and that you got out of it.
Been there. Done that. I’m sorry and embarrassed to say twice. The first time I chalked the behavior up to my husband’s childhood trauma. The second time loneliness distracted me from the red flags as I soaked up the flattery and romantic attention.
Before I knew it we were married. The abuse literally started as we were walking out of the chapel. Criticizing my appearance, denigrating my two young-adult children. I kept thinking this was adjustment and would pass. It didn’t. I was working, earning and very soon supporting him. Sold my house and used the proceeds to renovate his. Same MO. Great guy around friends and family, telling me everything that was wrong with me as soon as they were away. Ultimately speaking in threatening terms. Anything that went wrong was my fault. I learned the meaning of gaslighting. But, I couldn’t face blowing my life up again, so endured for seven years. When I finally became too ill and exhausted to go on, he fought the divorce tooth and nail. In the end, to save my sanity, I walked away from everything I had put in, including the house. The battle so distracted me that I lost my job, ending up unemployed and nearly homeless.
It’s been four years and in weak moments I still find myself questioning whether it was my fault after all. But soon after I left I came across the 2020 book, Assume Nothing, by Tanya Selvaratnam, recounting her abusive relationship with Eric Schneiderman, a formerly rising US politician. It was one of the first written accounts I’d seen of the MO and its effects.
Thank you for having the courage to put your story out and for opening a conversation.
Hi Jessica, oh wow. So sorry to hear that. The abuse starting as you were walking out of the chapel; absolutely brazen! These relationships are so ridiculously destructive to the women who find themselves in them. I’m glad you got out and are rebuilding your life. It’s probably safe to say you won’t be repeating it a third time. And maybe even find a decent human being who deserves you.
Thanks Ros. Nope! No third time. Two wonderful kids, great friends, and a sweet dog and cat. Life is good! I don’t usually get into sharing about these past events, but having been there and experienced how crazy and alone it can feel, it seems important to put it out in case some other poor victim is trying to find footing.
Thank you for creating the opening. I hope it helps others.
Thank you, your story matters so
much to so many people.
Thank you, Sarah x
Hi Ros,
You tell my story too - even to the move to the country bit. In my case to a half-built house with no running water, no electricity or plumbing and with an 18month old. I had to chop wood to light the slow burner stove for hot water.
He worked in the city so he took the car, stayed at his folks or with whoever he was shagging at the time.
Luckily the day my daughter found the rat bait and ate it he was home with the car. But it was me who drove her the 45 minutes to the hospital, and then 45 minutes back with her vomiting the whole way.
Took me two years to remember who I was after I eventually split with him (by then I had 4 kids - they were 6, 8, 10 and 12 at the time).
My Mum brought me the “Men are from Mars” book and empathised with him. 🤷🏼♀️. So much water under the bridge since then - 38 years worth.
Anyway, thanks - and solidarity ✊🏼.
❤️
Sarah
Wow, Sarah. What a story. I’m glad your daughter survived the rat bait. And that you got out … and eventually returned to yourself. Putting you in 19th century conditions with an 18 month old. Nice. But here we are, ourselves, and a great deal wiser. Astonishing what we put ourselves through in the hope we would be loved.
This was just terrifying to read. I have tended to end relationships very quickly because I can spot men like this immediately - not because I'm particularly astute, but because I was under coercive control (parents) for the first few decades of my life, and my CC 'radar' is always on and at full alert. And that's the problem, understanding coercive control is an ordeal by fire that can only be understood when you have the space and energy to take a look back and connect the dots and see the pattern. We need to teach young girls about CC early on, and in great detail. Thanks so much for sharing, Ros, and laying it out so clearly, even though it must have been difficult to relive it all. x
Thank you, Jem. Yes, wouldn’t it be good if CC was taught in schools, so that it was part of every young girls’ understanding of how they should *not* be treated, and what to look out for. I’m sorry to hear you got your CC radar switched on by your parents, but it has no doubt saved you from a lot of extra pain.
This story chilled me to the bone. Unfortunately, there are endless varieties of abuse, but some strains are never discussed. Thanks for sharing. Kudos to you for having the strength to GET OUT.
I only got out when I realised it was life or death. I gather that’s pretty common. Thank you for commenting, Barbara.
Very moving! I think guys like this are responsible for some of the drop in the birth rate — everybody knows a woman who has been treated badly like this and I think it makes having babies less appealing.
Yes, I think that too. Young women are getting more savvy to this behaviour (there is much discussion of Red Flags) and any men following the Andrew Tate school of behaviour, being encouraged to treat women as subservient creatures there to service their desires are asking to end up incels. This needs to reverse, but I guess it needs to get louder first, so that everyone gets the message.
Really powerful piece, Ros. So sorry to hear about all you went through.
I work with a lot of domestic violence perpetrators (I used to facilitate the Building Better Relationships course) and loads of the men come across as very charming and jokey etc.,- so clever in manipulating situations to get people to think they’re the ones who’ve been wronged. It’s quite scary tbh. It is, at least, a positive that coercive control is getting more recognition these days and the police take DV call-outs a lot more seriously. Hopefully encourages more people to speak up.
Thank you, Andy. Yes, I’m so relieved it’s getting talked about more. We can’t tackle this issue as a society unless we are more aware of it and clued up about it.
Very powerful piece. It must be so painful to relive what happened. Yet only by writing and retelling it can you hope to educate others. There is no better purpose than that.
Thank you Alex. It's actually not so painful, because I have done a lot of healing work, and I'm really at peace with most of it. Though when I'm writing it down (for the first time), things pop up and surprise me, like thinking how it wrong it was let he made me drive to deliver the system myself when I was extremely pregnant and exhausted! But yes, I think it's important to share these things in the hope it might help others avoid the same pain.
I think when your in that sort of relationship you loose trust in your own decisions and become very confused
I think that is part of how you get trapped there, yes.
Reading stories like this helps so much. The little things that resonate and you can recognize in your own story, because it's all sooo slippery. I still to this day find myself confused about whether my ex was abusive. Because he was never mean, or nasty, or loud. He was just.. indifferent. Indifferent to the point of leaving me home alone in our cabin in the middle of nowhere with a 12 hour old baby while he went out and got drunk. Didn't come home. Didn't answer his phone. That's weird right? Dad's who love their child's mothers don't do that. Dads who are in love with their babies don't do that. I have to tell myself that, to counter act the rationalizing that i spent so many years doing.He never once touched my stomach when I was pregnant. We lived in a village of 60 people. I never saw anyone, I didn't have any friends. He was my only friend. But then he left me for another gal. Moved me into a truck camper in the yard and moved her into the house. Told me he loved me and we would still be friends and everything would be ok. See? He was so nice. And what other choice did I have. He was my only confidante. I trusted him completely. And I had a three year old. Then he said he wanted me off the property. But lovingly. While saying he missed me. And I loved him. And I was out of my mind at this point. I weighed 25 lbs less than my healthy weight. I was vomiting every day, couldn't keep food down. I thought it was food poisoning. I was obsessed with tiny things. I cried all the time. But it would all be ok because he had my best interests at heart. Then I left the community and started my life over. Got healthy. Found new love. And all of a sudden my ex files for full custody. Says that I abused him. Says that I shouldn't be allowed to see my daughter without supervision. When I type it all out like this.... it's so clear right?
Wow, Bee. That’s SO clear. That is one of the cruellest and cleverest tales of abuse that I’ve seen. The cruelty is off the scale, actually. To *nicely* destroy you by telling you how much he loved you while every action showed the opposite. It’s amazing you managed to recover your sanity and health with that level of gaslighting. I mean people talk about gaslighting, and I certainly had a lot of it, but normal doses. That is one of the most extreme levels of gaslighting I have ever heard about. I hope you will write about it. That would make the most astonishing memoir or (if you preferred some fictional distance), novel. My word, you are a WARRIOR to be here.
Omg, yes. Shivers reading this. 4 months post-divorce. The red flags were there but I couldn’t see them until I filed for divorce. Then things began to make sense. How long does it take before you forgive yourself? I’m sitting in my new house I’ve bought for me and my three teenagers. I feel safe now no longer trapped in a role I knew I wasn’t suited for. Every time I read something like this, I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach. 3 and a half years later it still feels so raw, so many years wasted. But like you said, my god, the lessons I’ve learned….
You've done so well to a) get out b) make a safe home for you and your three teenagers. Brilliant work, Emily, honestly. You are not alone. Those years feel wasted now, but in time you'll understand how important they were in helping you learn your own value, grow as a person, become a powerful role-model for your children. It can take a while to forgive yourself, but there are ways of speeding it up. Hang around, I'll be sharing some. If you subscribe, check the chat, I'm going to be sharing the most important route through (the thing that really worked for me) next weekend. In the meantime, just bloody well done. You're out. You're okay. And it's going to keep getting better.
Thank you for sharing this Ros. It takes immense courage to talk about abuse. I am sorry that you lived through all of this. I have worked with a domestic abuse charity for sometime and have learnt a lot about perpetrators, coercive control, impacts on mental health and sadly the scale of the problem (1 in 3 women experience DA).
We really need to raise awareness of the signs and you are doing that so eloquently. Thank you.
That is a shocking statistic, Margaret. Can you point me to the source? I’d be really interested to see any study on that, because I had no idea it was as high as 1 in 3. Blimey, no wonder this post is taking off! For a long time I didn’t talk about it publicly, only among close friends. For 25 year in fact I stayed silent. Partly, because I didn’t want to poke the bear (he is still alive). Partly, because I didn’t want to upset my children by badmouthing their father (though they are all grown now and 2 out of 3 have cut off from him for their own reasons). But for a long time, because I still felt like no one would believe me… after all, no one did then, when it was happening.
Hi Ros,
Yes you have highlighted why so many women are silenced. There is the fear of speaking out should perpetrator seek revenge/ sue for defamation. Conviction rates are appealing so most perpetrators walk free.
Then there is family and children to consider.
Also culture, some cultures don’t recognise it as abuse.
All leading to a perfect storm.
Estimates published by WHO indicate that globally about 1 in 3 (30%) of women worldwide have been subjected to either physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence or non-partner sexual violence in their lifetime.
Domestic abuse is very common and types of abuse include coercive control, economic abuse as well as violent and sexual abuse.
The rise of Tate and misogyny doesn’t bode well sadly.
I hope that helps?