This was great. Honest. Humble. Something most can identify with. My favourite line was the bit about how it sticks you in the same spot. Very true. Made me think of the ‘Evil Eye’ idea too.
Great article! We all feel envy and I think it is stoked by the notion of scarcity. Someone else's success might mean there won't be enough to go around. When we can see the world as full of abundance, we can then see others and their accomplishments with admiration and happiness. It's not a pie....there are plenty of pieces and opportunities for all.
You're right, Karen, it is. The idea that there is a limited pie and someone else's success will rob you of the chance of your own. But you're right, there's no pie.
Thank you for this sage articulation of a tricky issue! As an artist, it’s so hard to watch someone else get the gig over you (especially when it’s a particular someone and it happens repeatedly). A wise friend of mine has a great mantra: “What’s mine shall not miss me; what misses me was not meant for me.” But envy still seeps in now and then, and I too would like to be free of it. Lately I’ve been trying to do as you say and appreciate what I DO have rather than focusing on what other people have that I want. (Social media definitely doesn’t help!) It’s nice to hear that you and others struggle with this as well.
You might be amused to hear that my Italian adventures (apparently leading to envy-inducing posts on here!) arose partly out of my envy of friends with partners and families. In my early forties, I thought: fuck it, if I'm going to be single and childless I'll do it magnificently. I could barely afford the mortgage on my flat in London, but I worked out that a childminder would cost more than the increase in my mortgage if I bought a tiny flat in the Italian countryside. (I was born in Italy.) So I did!!
Ha, Christina, I was thinking of your post when I wrote about the Tuscan balcony. And there you go, envy can be a fantastic driver at times to do good things with our lives.
How honest Ros to allow yourself to feel that envy, but not feed it. Recognizing that it can only eat you, from the inside out. I’ve had my time with envy, but it isn’t part of my repertoire any longer. Perhaps it is age, or comfort in who I’ve become, but gratefully it has dissipated. I do think when we move from competition to collaboration, envy seems to fade away.
So, I could for example feel envious of your subscriber numbers, fifteen years ago I probably would have. But now my thought process is, how great that more than 4,000 people have the opportunity to read this fantastic post.
Grateful to have found your writing.
I’m staying out of the kitchen too, I’d rather read and write. I “woz” there, but now I’m here. 😆 Have a great day!
Alegria, this is where I would like to head too. It would be easier if my envy weren't so tied up in my desire to be financially stable. Which is to say, if I had financial stability, I feel I would be less prone to pangs of envy. But perhaps I am fooling myself. I find very few situations in which I can work collaboratively (stage and TV writing are not big parts of my writing life) so it does tend to feel competitive at times. But you are absolutely right. And I, too, am glad you found my writing!
When my novel came out I felt an almost furious envy - it was so weird, because here I was, having achieved what I wanted to, but feeling envious of those authors doing 'better' - more sales, more publicity, more reviews.
Now, over ten years and a life overhaul later, and I can't believe the energy I wasted feeling so insecure. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever feel writerly-envious, but right now I have no book deal, a small substack, and the chance to go where I wish, and writing envy feels a very long way away.
That's a much more pleasant place to be in, Stephanie. I was very fortunate with my first book: I think I was more the subject of envy than the envious one in that instance, because it got a lot of positive attention. But now -- still desiring a follow up book deal -- the old sin begins to bite! But self-awareness is all.
Envy is indeed destructive and poisonous. I actually found that when I joined a local group of authors, before I got my first contract, my envy went away. We'd sit around the table and took it in turns to say what we'd been doing. And yes, someone might say, "just signed my tenth contract", but someone else would say, "I've been really struggling lately and I managed to finish a short story. Don't know who to send it to." Everyone got the same applause and support. More experienced writers would share their knowledge and their vulnerabilities as well. There's no envy in an environment like that. And I'm pleased to say that everyone I remember from those meet-ups ended up published - whether books or magazine short stories - in the end.
That sounds like a great environment to be in, Helen. I haven't had very good experiences with local groups of authors. I suspect it is me. I am not a very good group member. I am so used to leading groups is one thing. My ADHD means I am shit at reading social cues is another.
It was the lunchtime meet up for my local Romantic Novelists' Society. They were really welcoming and supportive. It probably helps that they have a New Writers' Scheme, so that supporting new writers is part of their makeup.
There are some clichés thrown around that the RNA is b*tchy but I didn't find that. I think that idea is actually just misogyny - that it's a professional organisation mainly consisting of women, so it must be full of gossip and backstabbing. Not so!
One of the problems I have with groups of this kind is being so far from being a new writer, and in fact having spent decades teaching others to write. So I’m not on the same page as writers who are new in the game, and it doesn’t feel like I’d have very much in common with them, in a group setting like the one you describe. Many years ago, I joined a local writer’s circle (having had short stories and poems published and some prize shortlistings) and I was already in a place where it didn’t make sense for me to be there: I shared a section of writing (we were all doing so) and they just said “that’s brilliant! Why isn’t it published?” when I was hoping for critical feedback. A group of my peers would be a group of people who’ve had publication, prizes, and a bumpy ride, plus work outside genre boundaries. Possibly quite hard to even locate a group of my peers, to be honest… except online, with a bit of handpicking!
I totally get how that accusation of bitchiness would arise out of misogyny. My friend is in a historical novelists group and they have all become very good friends.
I love conversations about professional envy especially. I find that when I've envying others, I'm not doing MY work. And I don't always manage it, but when I can remember to do the following, it always helps: use my envy as an arrow pointing me towards what I want. Jealous someone has a book deal? That tells me I want to write a book. So then I go work on my book. Envious of the praise someone is getting for an article? That tells me I want to be recognized for my work, so I find a way to publish in a public outlet. It's a way of turning envy into something positive, useful, and actionable. And it makes me feel less fear or shame around envy, and almost look forward to it. It's kinda magic.
I like this approach very much, Molly, using envy as an arrow to point you to what you want. @Christina Patterson above told a similar tale, of using envy for good purposes. Lovely bit of re-channeling. And to "almost look forward to it", fantastic!
I love how you describe that chasm between the having and wanting. I hadn’t thought of that, but it feels intuitively spot on for me. Thank you, Ros 🙏🏼
Thanks for the laughs and the insight. I sometimes feel envious of writers who have more subscribers than I have. But then the envy subsides when I see that my posts get far more engagement than some of theirs.
I have rather egocentrically posted two photos of my Saab. I hope you will do me the honour of reading some of my KALEIDOSCOPE. There are a few laughs. WITHNAIL AND I is especially evocative. R.
I know this feeling of envy. You see others doing what you want to do. You come up with an idea for a book you want to write and then you find one on the store bookshelf that is just what you thought up - someone else got to it first. The thing to remember is that it isn't a zero sum game. There is room for everyone at the table. Great piece, Ros. And you can send me honest feedback on my writing anytime! 😉
Thanks, Kathie. I have a very painful story about "someone else got to it first" which I will tell one day. The writing road is full of envy potholes if you're not good at swerving them. But yes, there is room for everyone in some way or other.
This was great. Honest. Humble. Something most can identify with. My favourite line was the bit about how it sticks you in the same spot. Very true. Made me think of the ‘Evil Eye’ idea too.
Thanks Joanna. I considered getting one of those evil eye hands (Hamsa) a few years ago when I was getting a lot of envy!
Great article! We all feel envy and I think it is stoked by the notion of scarcity. Someone else's success might mean there won't be enough to go around. When we can see the world as full of abundance, we can then see others and their accomplishments with admiration and happiness. It's not a pie....there are plenty of pieces and opportunities for all.
You're right, Karen, it is. The idea that there is a limited pie and someone else's success will rob you of the chance of your own. But you're right, there's no pie.
Thank you for this sage articulation of a tricky issue! As an artist, it’s so hard to watch someone else get the gig over you (especially when it’s a particular someone and it happens repeatedly). A wise friend of mine has a great mantra: “What’s mine shall not miss me; what misses me was not meant for me.” But envy still seeps in now and then, and I too would like to be free of it. Lately I’ve been trying to do as you say and appreciate what I DO have rather than focusing on what other people have that I want. (Social media definitely doesn’t help!) It’s nice to hear that you and others struggle with this as well.
A wonderfully written article touching on a subject which everyone has felt at some point but few have the courage to admit to.
I like what you said about envy filling the gap between where you are, and where you want to be making it a widening gap and then chasm.
It truly is a poison.
Thank you, Louise. That widening gap idea has been with me for a while: I heard it from an inspiring person I follow, but it struck me as very true.
You're a wonderful writer. I'm so glad we got to connect on Notes.
Thank you, David.
Very true. Your words echo in my mind, and leave me wondering how much I have given in to envy myself. 🤔
I think we have all given into at times. It seems innately human. You'd have to be some kind of spiritual master/mistress to avoid it completely.
You might be amused to hear that my Italian adventures (apparently leading to envy-inducing posts on here!) arose partly out of my envy of friends with partners and families. In my early forties, I thought: fuck it, if I'm going to be single and childless I'll do it magnificently. I could barely afford the mortgage on my flat in London, but I worked out that a childminder would cost more than the increase in my mortgage if I bought a tiny flat in the Italian countryside. (I was born in Italy.) So I did!!
Ha, Christina, I was thinking of your post when I wrote about the Tuscan balcony. And there you go, envy can be a fantastic driver at times to do good things with our lives.
I know! That’s why I responded. 😉
We could all do with a little of that in our lives. I love that you went ahead and got yourself some. I hope that the sciatica has eased up.
Thank you!
How honest Ros to allow yourself to feel that envy, but not feed it. Recognizing that it can only eat you, from the inside out. I’ve had my time with envy, but it isn’t part of my repertoire any longer. Perhaps it is age, or comfort in who I’ve become, but gratefully it has dissipated. I do think when we move from competition to collaboration, envy seems to fade away.
So, I could for example feel envious of your subscriber numbers, fifteen years ago I probably would have. But now my thought process is, how great that more than 4,000 people have the opportunity to read this fantastic post.
Grateful to have found your writing.
I’m staying out of the kitchen too, I’d rather read and write. I “woz” there, but now I’m here. 😆 Have a great day!
Alegria, this is where I would like to head too. It would be easier if my envy weren't so tied up in my desire to be financially stable. Which is to say, if I had financial stability, I feel I would be less prone to pangs of envy. But perhaps I am fooling myself. I find very few situations in which I can work collaboratively (stage and TV writing are not big parts of my writing life) so it does tend to feel competitive at times. But you are absolutely right. And I, too, am glad you found my writing!
When my novel came out I felt an almost furious envy - it was so weird, because here I was, having achieved what I wanted to, but feeling envious of those authors doing 'better' - more sales, more publicity, more reviews.
Now, over ten years and a life overhaul later, and I can't believe the energy I wasted feeling so insecure. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever feel writerly-envious, but right now I have no book deal, a small substack, and the chance to go where I wish, and writing envy feels a very long way away.
That's a much more pleasant place to be in, Stephanie. I was very fortunate with my first book: I think I was more the subject of envy than the envious one in that instance, because it got a lot of positive attention. But now -- still desiring a follow up book deal -- the old sin begins to bite! But self-awareness is all.
Yes, 💯 %
Envy is indeed destructive and poisonous. I actually found that when I joined a local group of authors, before I got my first contract, my envy went away. We'd sit around the table and took it in turns to say what we'd been doing. And yes, someone might say, "just signed my tenth contract", but someone else would say, "I've been really struggling lately and I managed to finish a short story. Don't know who to send it to." Everyone got the same applause and support. More experienced writers would share their knowledge and their vulnerabilities as well. There's no envy in an environment like that. And I'm pleased to say that everyone I remember from those meet-ups ended up published - whether books or magazine short stories - in the end.
That sounds like a great environment to be in, Helen. I haven't had very good experiences with local groups of authors. I suspect it is me. I am not a very good group member. I am so used to leading groups is one thing. My ADHD means I am shit at reading social cues is another.
Oh, and I have ADHD too and I'm aware I'm bad at social cues too! But fortunately we were all a bit shy or loud or awkward so we got on! 😊
It was the lunchtime meet up for my local Romantic Novelists' Society. They were really welcoming and supportive. It probably helps that they have a New Writers' Scheme, so that supporting new writers is part of their makeup.
There are some clichés thrown around that the RNA is b*tchy but I didn't find that. I think that idea is actually just misogyny - that it's a professional organisation mainly consisting of women, so it must be full of gossip and backstabbing. Not so!
One of the problems I have with groups of this kind is being so far from being a new writer, and in fact having spent decades teaching others to write. So I’m not on the same page as writers who are new in the game, and it doesn’t feel like I’d have very much in common with them, in a group setting like the one you describe. Many years ago, I joined a local writer’s circle (having had short stories and poems published and some prize shortlistings) and I was already in a place where it didn’t make sense for me to be there: I shared a section of writing (we were all doing so) and they just said “that’s brilliant! Why isn’t it published?” when I was hoping for critical feedback. A group of my peers would be a group of people who’ve had publication, prizes, and a bumpy ride, plus work outside genre boundaries. Possibly quite hard to even locate a group of my peers, to be honest… except online, with a bit of handpicking!
I totally get how that accusation of bitchiness would arise out of misogyny. My friend is in a historical novelists group and they have all become very good friends.
I love conversations about professional envy especially. I find that when I've envying others, I'm not doing MY work. And I don't always manage it, but when I can remember to do the following, it always helps: use my envy as an arrow pointing me towards what I want. Jealous someone has a book deal? That tells me I want to write a book. So then I go work on my book. Envious of the praise someone is getting for an article? That tells me I want to be recognized for my work, so I find a way to publish in a public outlet. It's a way of turning envy into something positive, useful, and actionable. And it makes me feel less fear or shame around envy, and almost look forward to it. It's kinda magic.
I like this approach very much, Molly, using envy as an arrow to point you to what you want. @Christina Patterson above told a similar tale, of using envy for good purposes. Lovely bit of re-channeling. And to "almost look forward to it", fantastic!
I love how you describe that chasm between the having and wanting. I hadn’t thought of that, but it feels intuitively spot on for me. Thank you, Ros 🙏🏼
I heard it elsewhere and it made total sense to me too, Kay.
Thanks for the laughs and the insight. I sometimes feel envious of writers who have more subscribers than I have. But then the envy subsides when I see that my posts get far more engagement than some of theirs.
Yes, engagement is much more meaningful than numbers.
I enjoyed reading this, my first of yours. The man in the electric blue Saab.
I have rather egocentrically posted two photos of my Saab. I hope you will do me the honour of reading some of my KALEIDOSCOPE. There are a few laughs. WITHNAIL AND I is especially evocative. R.
Will head there right away!
Thanks, Robert. You clearly have great taste.
I know this feeling of envy. You see others doing what you want to do. You come up with an idea for a book you want to write and then you find one on the store bookshelf that is just what you thought up - someone else got to it first. The thing to remember is that it isn't a zero sum game. There is room for everyone at the table. Great piece, Ros. And you can send me honest feedback on my writing anytime! 😉
Thanks, Kathie. I have a very painful story about "someone else got to it first" which I will tell one day. The writing road is full of envy potholes if you're not good at swerving them. But yes, there is room for everyone in some way or other.
🫶🏻